Friendly biblical discussionsBiblical discussions
Welcome to our religious (hub 13) friendly biblical discussions
May God help and guide us to write the right religious things in this article
The bible is the most read book in the world, people read the Bible discuss what is written in the Bible; at the end of the Bible there is this chapter called Revelation that talks about the end of the world, today in this article we are reviewing that part.
Today violent happeningsDear readers, one really needs to ask oneself whether today happening have a link to what is written in the Bible, because what is happening is really worrying the entire world, so let us just mention what is happening:
I have to say here that every time I come back to review or edit one of my hubs, there is always something else to add, because of those events that happen in the world these days. While I am editing this hub is March 2015 there are terrible and violent news all around us; the last of which is in Yemen where more than 120 people have been killed from these suicide bombers in a mosque, also more than 20 soldiers have been killed from another group of these terrorist fanatics, who might believe that according to their beliefs when they die they are going straight to paradise, because according to their twisted religious beliefs they are doing the right thing, that is according to the laws of Allah their God. The attitude of these Muslim religious people is so far apart from the attitude of us Christian that believe that killing anyone is the most horrible sin that one could commit, in fact even killing oneself willingly is a sin against God and Mother Nature. We have added this new comment above, because this could be a direct link to the end of time discussion.
Of course there are a lot more killings going on in the world; in Tunisia they have killed more than twenty tourists that were visiting this museum, in Libya they have many small wars going on all the time, they threaten many countries or places in many ways; in the Middle East is just the same if not worse and many other things. It seems as if the some of the Muslim religious extremist have declared war to each and every one of us; so if we ask ourselves is this the beginning of the end of the world as we know it? I suppose we have a good reason to say it. But let us go back to talk about this end of time discussions.
The end of time discussionsNow let us go back to the end of time discussions. You see, since we were little children, we have been exposed to these religious beliefs; most of our beliefs seem to work well and help us live our lives peacefully. But then there are some of these religious beliefs that would strike fear in our hearts and one of these is the end of time, as written in the book of Revelation, which these days even this dreadful event could become possible because of what is happening in the world these days.
Therefore, as soon as something violent happens in the world that seems out of the ordinary, we will soon ask ourselves whether it is just a normal violent happening, or something else that could threaten our lives, and then we ask ourselves whether this could be the beginning to the end of the world, because that is the way that we have been told since we were young, you see this event is written in Revelation near the end if the Bible, which is supposed to be the book that God inspired, and some people firmly believe that the Bible is really the word of God.
Whether the Bible has really been inspired by God is difficult to say, but a lot of people believe it is, now as we all know in religions people beliefs is what counts most, so in a way we have to accept what people believe, therefore let us see what is written in the Bible. As we have often heard the last book of the Bible called revelation: The book of revelation; written by John (this is not John who wrote the gospel, since for some reason the expert say that Revelation was written much later). Anyhow this john is believed to have had a vision where the end of the present system is foretold, so people are waiting for the world to end. But, is this foretold event of the Bible Revelation really going to happen? Or does the book of Revelation mean something else and we have missed the real meaning of the Bible Revelations? This is what we are trying to discuss in this hub, in the hope that we come up with some positive answers and help the public understand better what it means?
Therefore in these articles that we are writing here we will be discussing about The Bible Revelation and therefore the end of times as written in the Bible. Or as the Greek call it apocalypse, which is a name that easily puts fear into everyone heart, for these reasons most people do not like to talk about the Bible Revelation, because the violent events in there are a bit scary to say the least. But then, it is very hard to make sense of the whole Book of Revelation and why it has been written that way in the first place. In fact it sound too scary and for that reason it might not be true, because the whole book of Revelation might have been written to scare people into submission.
Therefore, anyone reading the Bible Revelation should ask oneself, is there really any reason why God wants these terrible things to happen to us, just the way it has been written in revelation; after all God is supposed to be the Father of all living being, therefore we cannot believe that God is going to be so cruel and destroy us all.
Because I have to say that for me and I hope for most of us God is supposed to be a benevolent loving Father. I hope you agree with my statement about God being good? So, why these Revelation were written in a way to scare us so much one may never know.
Anyhow, as we have said in this hub, we are going to talk about the Bible Revelation, so, if you happen to believe in the Bible Revelation you should read this article, and then take part in those religious discussions that might follow, or write your own article on this subject if you like; as we would like to know your views about the Bible Revelation and other religious matters, even a short description of your beliefs will do, so please write a comment, if you can spare a little time?
Anyhow, now let us go back to what we were doing in our last article. Dear readers as you all know from our previous articles, we were meeting with religious friends to discuss religious matters as we have explained in the article Spiritual circumstances, 9, therefore we are meeting again to talk about our religious views or reviews and in this case about the book of Revelation, in the hope of finding a way that would help to solve, or a suggestion that could help to solve this religious dilemma that we have been facing for a long time. Anyhow let us discuss this article at length with our friends in a friendly discussion here under.
Our religious discussions
Here are some of our friendly religious discussionsSo, hereunder are some religious discussions that we have had with some of our close religious friends. It happened some time after the first meeting when we had another religious meeting, I was hoping that by then my friends Mark and Gino would bring good news, and that they would be more helpful by accepting my religious way of thinking, but it was not going to be my way at all. In fact I wanted first of all to submit one of my prayers that I had written to show them, but I had no chance, this prayer has now been published in hub, Prayer of Reconciliation, 12, and this is the link to check it out Prayers of Reconciliation, 12, because I didn’t have the chance to show my prayer to them, I still don’t know whether they would have approved this prayer or not, but anyhow let us go back to the meeting.
At this new meeting, Mark and Gino came together with another friend called John, but as soon as they saw me they grew serious and they didn’t seem to be their usual self, as they are usually happy when we meet together, so, I guessed that I had given them a burden which at the present time seemed to upset them a bit.
So I asked them; what’s the matter my friends? Why aren’t your usual self happy? You seem very grave to me is there anything that is upsetting you my friends?
No, nothing is upsetting us accept the news that we are bringing you, (they said) which are not exactly those religious views that you would have liked to hear. You see we have been talking to a few people about what you would like to do, of course we did not tell them about your supernatural encounter, as we agreed with you that we should not talk about it with outsiders; so, we talked only about what you have intention to do, like reviewing the meanings of the Bible and what it means or something of that sort, the outcome of these talks left us concerned as there is no way to know what people really think about religions nowadays, therefore now we are even more concerned than when we started asking those questions, for this reason we are here to show you what we have heard and what we mean.
Mark, Gino and their Friend John seemed a bit upset about what they were still going to say to me, so, I tried to put them at ease.
Well, (I said) I thought that this outcome was likely to happen, because people usually don’t like to think for themselves difficult matters and religion is perhaps the most difficult of them all, so people keep doing and believing what they have been told and thought to do and believe, as this is for them the easy way out, but really I believe that for sure there is another unexplored religious way and I would like to find it out.
Tell me a bit more about this religious exploration of yours: Did most people give you negative comments about what I would like to do? Or, did they also have some positive comments? If they did both what percentage were they?
Well, it is hard to say, but a rough estimate is that they seem to be about half of them, so 50% could be the right figure just to put a figure on that amount. But this is not all, because some of those people that didn’t like your religious ideas come on very strong, so we thought that it would be good for you to hear this first hand from our fried John, as John is one of them and really what he has been saying make sense to us too
Now if you agree we may hear what John has to say?
Okay I said, let John speak then, about these religious matters?
And this is what John said.
John's speechDear friends you know already why I am here.
As you all know I have been following up a few religions for a while, just to find out whether to be religious and follow a religion is the right thing to do for myself and for any of us, and if it is, what is the best way to go about following a religion? Which one of these existing religions could be the right religion for me? You see I have asked myself many times these questions.
As you all know in this part of the world most religions are Christian in origin and they have sprung from the Bible in one way or another, so, I believe that following what is written in the Bible is the way to go, as most people seem to be happy to do that.
Therefore, after having studied a few religions I came to the conclusion that they are more or less the same; so, I dare say that perhaps the best thing for anybody is to stay with the religion your parents have thought you, but really it is up to you what you want to do.
Now, let me come to today’s’ religious task; Mark and Gino here have come to me and told me about what you (Frank) want to do as a religious believer, So I became concerned, and for this reason here I am about to tell you my concerns, so I am here to talk about these concerns of mine, in order to help you to make the right decision once you have heard what I have to say.
Recently in a religious group we had a discussion on Revelation, a few members were not happy about these great tribulations and other things expressed in Revelation, so they were looking for another way out that would be less demanding on humanity.
To cut a long story short one of the members who was there pointed out that we could do nothing about it, as the Bible itself says that it can’t be changed; so this bloke took the Bible and read the very end of Revelation which says this; and I am going to quote from the Bible as he did.
The end of the Bible
Here John took his Bible and read.
22-16- I Jesus, have sent my angel to make these revelations to you for the sake of the churches. I am of David’s line, the root of David and the bright star of the morning.
17- The Spirit and the Bride say, ‘Come’. Let everyone who listens answer, ‘Come’. Then let all who are thirsty come: all who want it may have the water of life, and have it free.
18- This is my solemn warning to all who hear the prophecies in this book: if anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him every plague mentioned in the book;
19- if anyone cuts anything out of the prophecies in this book, God will cut off his share of the tree of life and of the holy city, which are described in the book.
20- The one who guaranties these revelations repeats his promise: I shall indeed be with you soon. Amen; come, Lord Jesus.
21- May the grace of the Lord Jesus be with you all. Amen.
(End of quote from Bible)
This is how, The Jerusalem Bible, ends.
----------------------------------------------------------Now, let us talk about this meeting that we had with Mark, Gino and John:
When John closed the Bible and said:
Now you can see for yourself why I was much concerned and wanted to let you know what my views and beliefs are on religions, so that you would know how I see these religious things.
Therefore, know that I have said what I wanted to say to you I feel better already, because the decision will be yours if you want to go ahead and do what you want to do by reviewing what is written in the Bible, or hear and heed the warning in the last chapter of the Bible and therefore stop just like everybody else has stopped for about 2000 years, as they have been scared from that warning. What do you say now?
I know, ‘I said to John’, your warning from the Bible sounds threatening indeed, so, I will take it into consideration and thanks for the advice you have given me.
Discussing Revelation and John's readingAnyhow, now that John has given us his advice, let us discuss what would be wise to do next, since it looks like that before we do anything we will have to learn a lot more about this warning that John gave us and I will not rush into doing anything: So I would like to discuss it a bit more with my friends here Mark and Gino just to see what they think about it.
Then I turned to Gino and Mark and asked them: What do you think about John’s Bible warning? I would like to hear your opinion on this subject, if you have anything to say you can say it now.
Well, what John has brought up sounds very serious to me, and I dare say that perhaps you Frank have to moderate most of your religious ideology, so that it does not change anything that is said in the Bible, in another way whatever you are going to say it should not contests the Bible scriptures; look Frank a lot of generations have gone past and they all have accepted the bible just the way it is, so I don’t know why you see it in a different way.
Therefore, I would like to suggest that we study first the Bible a bit longer before you do anything about it; what do you say to my request? Would you agree to study the Bible with us for a while yet before you make any decision?
We all said yes to Mark’s questions saying, we agree with you that we need to study more before we do anything.
Then I added, but I would like to know also what Gino personally thinks about John’s warning and everything else? So, Gino tell us what you think about this present Bible discussion? I am sure that you have your own way of seeing these religious things.
Well, I agree with Mark that we should really study the situation before we do anything; I want also to say that I was partly surprised about the way of John’s interpretation of the Bible, I think that there may be another meaning to this sinister warning. What makes me think this is the way which Jesus’ angel tells the writer what to write; and it is also the way it is said, I have always believed that Jesus was a very amicable person: but here his message through the angel sounds very harsh and he issues threatening warnings, he seems completely changed; So I say that there are several meanings in those writings, and I would say that we should investigate and proceed with caution.
Me to Gino- Gino! What do you mean by proceed with caution?
Gino to me- What else can you do? You can’t rush things in a situation like this. You may have to read the Bible once or twice more from the beginning until the very end; or at least all the new Testament to find the meaning of what has been said, and then and only then, you may be in a position to decide what to do.
Mark said- Frank, I believe Gino is right and we should not rush things, take your time man! There is plenty of time to do what you want to do.
Then if it is God’s will that you have to write these religious writings, God will make sure that you will find enough time and also the right way how to do it?
Now, since we have already spent a great deal of time on this religious task, I suggest that we adjourn the meeting for another time. So, let us enjoy ourselves the usual way before we have to depart our own way, okay?
OK. I said, but just let me say first a few more things about what I believe the Bible is: I believe that the Bible is two books in one, or perhaps several books all expressed in one single book, so, the Bible may have several meanings also and not just one meaning, therefore one has to be careful to attach just one meaning to the Bible. I know that the Bible has been used mostly as a religious book for a very long time; but look it is also a law book and history book, it is stated clearly in the Bible that it is a law book, they say that it is all God’s laws, as it is shown in the ten Commandments for a start.
So, let us just assume that there is this real God, who talked to Moses and that this God has laid down the laws as written in the Bible: but then; did this God talk to Moses every single time? Or sometimes Moses wrote his laws as the need of the times dictated, so that he could control his people as best as he could?
Of course what I have said (written above) is just an example, but with this Moses’ example I want to point out that this could be the case for just any other laws and religious writing in the Bible; so, one has to assume that not everything written in the Bible is God words or inspired by God, because it is subject to manipulation from the writer himself and from future writers.
Having said that I can now assume that Revelation in the Bible that we have been talking about with John, it may be something that was written just because it needed to be written like that at that particular tough time. You see, in those times most of the known world was under the Roman rules, these rules were very harsh and very likely revelation was intended as being the end of the Roman rules and not the end of the world.
Therefore, I do not believe in Revelation and tribulation as written in the Bible, or I should say as most of the people want to understand it today, because practical reasoning in my mind says that it is not going to happen that way at all, because it is an almost impossible thing to happen just the way that it has been written, anyhow it may have already come to pass, as to Roman empire has ended a long time ago.
Therefore I feel that, if it is going to happen as it is written in the Bible and therefore I am wrong in assuming that it is not going to happen and could not happen; then, because I still want to write these religious writing and review the Bible, I have reasons to believe that I am being used from God, or God’s life force of the universe, so, I am being used as the forerunner announcing that the first seal in Revelation is about to be (broken) opened, and therefore, Revelation is truly going to happen soon just the way it is written in the Bible. But let us hope that it does not and could not happen anyhow, and so, I am writing this to guide people away from this mistaken view. Now let me say a few things about my personal views.
The end of time personal viewsThis is the end of time personal views
After having said what we have said above, it has come to my mind that not all people that read religious pages may know what is meant by Revelation in the Bible, so, let us explain just this; Revelation is the last book in the Bible, and it predict how the world will end, since according to the writer (John, this John is not John who wrote one of the gospels) God wants the world to end on his terms. Whether it is only a scary description to make people stronger in their beliefs, or it is something that is going really to happen nobody knows, so the whole thing is open for discussions and everybody can believe whatever they want, so let us discuss it if you will; and this is what I would like to say.
As I have said above, if what is written in revelation about the end of time is really going to happen, then because I am writing these religious writings, I am being used from God as the forerunner announcing that the first seal is about to be opened. But at the same time I do not see that it is possible for me to be said forerunner.
However we believe that some changes are going to happen, and whether it happens just as it is written in the Bible or not, it does not really matter, but these changes will bring a new system somehow, then, Revelation will cease to exist, in one way or the other, therefore then, Revelation could be said that it has taken place, since a new religious system would be installed.
So, I am not particularly concerned about those threats in Revelation, because in one way or the other we will fulfil God’s will.
For the time being we may accept this explanation above, of course we are going to talk again and again about this subject later on in these religious writings.
To anyone that wants to see more of these religious writings can go to this web address:
More discussions about the end of time
More discussions about the end of time
More outside discussions about Revelation
My dear readers, here and now I would like to say how I see these religious things my own way, or perhaps I should say how I see these religious discussions about Revelations today. You see, since that last religious meeting with my friends that I have written above, I have also had several discussions with other outside people about Revelation at the end of the Bible and from these discussions I have come to the conclusion that Revelation has different meanings to different people, I have found that there are people that believe that Revelation is indeed how the world would end soon or later; but there are also some people that say that revelation at the end of the Bible is not going to happen at all, because it was/is only a descriptive way that John the writer of Revelation used, so that they could control the religious people of those days by giving them courage since God would soon help them one way or another.
There is also another reason as some learned people suggest that Revelation is not what religious people want us to believe even today, which is that the world will end soon, because there will soon be a war so great that the whole world will be destroyed. Here we definitely can add that if a great war is going to happen, it could happen because of the Muslim threat that really seems to split the world in two, and therefore it could be very much like Armageddon written in the Bible. I do not like to add anything else, because we believe that humanity should be able to find a way out, since some of us have reached the age of reason and should be able to find a solution; my own personal solution could be said to be what we would like to achieve with these religious writings.WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO ACHIEVE WITH THESE WRITINGS:
We are trying to set the stage for the entire world to see
So, when you read these pages you might have to agree
That here we are trying to find a way to God for all humanity,
In the hope that we would be living in God's peace for eternity
Therefore, I am praying God to guide and help me.
Now just a few more words about Revelation; there are some people who believe that revelation has already happened, what these believers are saying is that, what the write John was saying was that Armageddon was really the end of the Roman empire ruling over the world, because when John wrote Revelation the Romans were the main enemies of the follower of Jesus, so they may well be right to assume that a new system has already happened.
Looking back at what has been said in these discussions above; it seems to me that there may be a need to discuss the Bible interpretations of Revelation, because some people seem to disagrees with the present interpretation, which the religious leaders of today want us to believe, in order to scare us again so that we would follow them.
Anyhow in our next article we will be talking about more religious discussions and also about prayers.
May God help us to understand these religious things?