Religious Reconciliation Doc

https://sites.google.com/site/menfrancoreconciliation/

https://sites.google.com/site/prayersofreconciliation/

Thursday, May 1, 2014

Gino's comments

WELCOME TO OUR RELIGIOUS RECONCILIATION DOC; YOU ARE INVITED TO BROWSE AND TO TAKE PART IF YOU WANT. IF YOU FIND SOMETHING PERSONALLY INTERESTING LET US KNOW. just a short comment will do if you do not have much time.
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Welcome to our blog, Religious Reconciliation Doc
and this post, Gino's comments
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Now this picture represents God as a man. God here seems so powerful, is it just our imagination that we see God thus?

These are Gino's comments
Dear readers to understand this post you need to read our previous post of, Religious discussions, so that you can follow what Gino is saying or in a way commenting on our previous speech and this is what Gino is saying:
Let me talk about Mark speech first: I have to say that Mark and I agree on most of these religious issues, so there is no point in repeating them, I only would like to say a bit more about the last group of people who we call the atheists, as they need to be noted about their ways of thinking and speeches, I would say that any religious believer should avoid talking to any of them about religious matters, because soon or later those atheists are inclined to ridicule the religious beliefs of the believers, and because, they are usually good intelligent people, it is hard for any average religious people to defend themselves from this group.
They attack believers usually by asking proof of the existence of God or any religious matter, so Mark is right when he calls them the danger group of religious beliefs. We really need to think hard how to defend ourselves from this group, if we want to save religions and keep religions as close as they are today. Let me show you a few examples about what they usually talk about to get the believers off guard.
You believers say that God is Omnipotent, now if God is omnipotent then god should be capable to do anything at all no matter how difficult the task is.
Now, there are many things in the world that need to be fixed, why your god does not fix them? For these reasons we say that your God most likely does not exist at all; and/or he exists He is definitely not omnipotent, or he is not willing to fix anything, so your god is not your fatherly benevolent god that you say he is. Therefore your religious beliefs are flawed and you would be better off if you don’t believe in your God.
We say and believe that we are right to assume that there is no God and religions are there only to control people, now since religions fight with each others, it would have been better if religions did not exist at all. Do you see what we atheist mean?
This sort of reasoning goes on with many gods attributes and they challenge the believers to give proof of the existence of God and its attributes. So it is hard for any believers to give proof of God and its attributes. How can any believers give proof about God?
And god omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence and many other God attributes?
This is how the atheists attack any believers with this sort of reasoning; they do that because for the atheists God and religion would be better if they did not exist. What can be done to change their attitude is hard to say. But then if nothing is done it can result in more harm to the community, because they will slowly make the believer deny their God.
Now, let me see what I can say about what you just said Frank, I can see that you are trying to find a possible solution, but what sort of solution you do not know yet, it is just as I was saying it is hard to know what can be done; I have to say that there are times when I think that today’s religions are missing the point, they don’t know how to keep the people believing what they have always believed; because times are changing, but religions are not changing at all, as they fail to see the need to change.
Therefore I understand you Frank when you say that something needs to be done, and I say also that perhaps it is time to do something about it and find a way around it. Looking at what has been said, I see something that perhaps can be done, so, may I suggest that we start to read the Bible bit by bit and comment among ourselves how many interpretation can we give to that part of the Bible, it might turn out that there are interpretation that can apply to these modern time.
I hope I have explained myself clear enough in this difficult task.
Your speech is clear enough for me I said; then I turned to Mark and asked: what do you think of Gino speech mark? His speech is very clear for me too; in fact it is just about what I would have liked to say myself. But now, where do we go from here I don’t Know?
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I suppose I need to say something myself now about what we have talked about; what I see here is the need to review what is written in the Bible, and also think hard if what is written in the Bible was write at the time it was written, but today it may not apply and therefore we may need to adjust things, as the needs of the day suggest.
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Frank's comment

FRANK THE WRITER COMMENT
Mark and Gino, now that we have seen and talked about in these religious discussions, and what you have found for yourself while talking to people on these religious subject, what religious people think and what atheist think, I hope that you may have changed your previous opinion, and therefore, now you might be thinking more like me; which is that something needs to be done to help religions find a way of peaceful existence, if peaceful existence can ever be found.
We have to agree that, to achieve complete peaceful existence is not easy the way religions are today, therefore, I believe and I hope that you agree with me that religions need to be reviewed and brought in line with the present times. I have to say that at this present time nobody wants to listen to our religious approach, so there is not much that one can do presently; but one can always start thinking about the possibilities, if one day something can be done to solve this religious problem for good.
I believe that, the only way that this can be achieved is to come up with a theory, which allows the existence of all religions as they are today; but at the same time finds a way and be able to shows it clearly to the people that all religions are one link of the same chain. I know this is not as simple as it sounds, but if we keep looking we will find the way to show people that we are looking for. Under here might be one of them.

This is the portrait of the philosopher Baruch Spinoza who thought that God could be different to what the people of his time thought God was like, but he could not say much, because he could upset the powerful church.

Now let me say this: while searching the Internet, I have found that there was a philosopher called, Baruch Spinoza, 1632-1677 who believed that it is more likely that God may not be just the way that religions want you to believe nowadays; but it could be that God was more like Mother Nature therefore it is more likely that we all are part of God and God is everything or at least every living thing in existence.
So, let us see what this sort of reasoning takes us; Let us assume that God could not be exactly how we have been thought god is like today; then it may well be that God is more like what Spinoza believed god was like, this may very well be the link that we need to find in order to link all existing religions together.
Therefore, if we think a bit like Spinoza and add to the knowledge which we have today, we might be able to describe a god which could co-exist with all religions together.
So, let us put out minds together and see if we can describe this God for all; which we could call God-Most-High. Mark and Gino, what do you think of my idea?
My friends Mark and Gino said; well, it seems a bit strange to us, but your idea is an idea and it might even work, so, let us try to make a list of how this god-most-high could be; just to see if we are able to find a way to Spinoza thinking about, what is God?
Very well I said; you see, a while ago I was thinking this same thing, so I have already written something about, what is God? So, I am going to show you soon what I wrote:
I think we have said enough in this post, but we will continue with these same religious discussions in next post, see you there.
May God help us find the right religious way? For this reason I will be praying God to help me with this prayer:
Almighty Father, I am praying you with all my heart, my soul and my mind hoping that in your mercy you would guide and help me, Father hear my prayer, amen.

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Religious Reconciliation Doc

Gino's comments

IS TO BE CONTINUED;

Next time with; another religious discussion

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Other religious links from same author

https://sites.google.com/site/menfrancoreconciliation/

https://sites.google.com/site/prayersofreconciliation/

Friday, April 11, 2014

Religious discussions

WELCOME TO OUR RELIGIOUS RECONCILIATION DOC; YOU ARE INVITED TO BROWSE AND TO TAKE PART IF YOU WANT. IF YOU FIND SOMETHING PERSONALLY INTERESTING LET US KNOW. just a short comment will do if you do not have much time.
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Welcome to our blog, Religious Reconciliation Doc
and this post, Religious discussion
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Generally people have all sorts of meeting where they try to talk their differences, in our case we are talking about religions and religious people beliefs.

Religious discussions at the meeting

Dear readers, to understand what follows here we need to explain that this is the continuation of our last post, so, you need to read last post and then read this post.

Anyhow after greeting each other and all other niceties that occur every time good friends meet, I, Mark and Gino made ourselves comfortable and started to talk about the agenda of the meeting, and I first of all asked them;

I guess that you have come just the two of you because any other friend does not want to take part in these religious talks? Is that right?

What is the matter with them? Are they scared or something else?

Don’t they see that we are talking only and nothing is happening? And nothing will ever happen just by talking and trying to make sense of the whole religious situation that exists today.

Dear friends changing religious meanings is not new, we just have to look back at the times of Our Lord Jesus Christ, to see that even Jesus tried to explain religious issues in a different way, but the religious leader of the time did not want to follow Jesus, so they crucified him.

Anyhow other people not coming it does not matter much, and perhaps we are better off without them, if they worry too much about exchanging religious views or beliefs, in case they say the wrong things, we don't need them.

But now tell me, what have people said if and when you have talked to them about God and religion, and also what has been happening lately?

Here my friend Mark was ready to answer me and he had a nice surprise for me, when he said later on that, ‘God is hope for those who need hope most’; and this is what he said overall:

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God is hope for those who need hope most

Mark reply
Well, most of the people we have talked to are not interested about talking religious things, and those who are have expressed themselves in many different ways; but let me break these people beliefs in groups so to speak, so that a better picture can be seen?
So, first I have to say that a lot of people believe in God and religion just the way it is today, this portion of people does not want any change in religion, so they are happy to stay with the ways religions are nowadays, and if they have any doubts in their minds they are not showing it. So, it would be a waste of time to talk to them unless you agree fully with their religious beliefs.
There is also a portion of people that have doubts about today religions and they are ready to talk about it, some of these people don’t feel sure whether what is being taught about religion is all true, so, they are believers but with some doubt in their mind and heart. You can talk to this group of people but they are not much help, if you want to find or formulate any new ideas.
We have also noted that right in the middle there is this large group of people, which believe in God and religions only up to a certain point, these people usually would like to know more and ask all sorts of questions, in the hope that they could find their way how to return to religion fully one day, as they seem to feel that religion is still important to them in many ways; sometimes these people seem to want to follow religion just to have a sense of belonging to a group, as they like to have friends and religion gives this opportunity to them.
Then there is at the extreme end of this middle group those who believe very little in religion as it is today, so, they are asking too many questions themselves about religions, they are agnostic as they believe and at the same time don’t believe in God and religions, one does not know what to do with this group, and yet they are the most interesting ones, just because they would like to know more. That is all there is in this middle group.
And then, there is this last group of people, which I would call the danger group for religious beliefs, they are the atheist, they don’t believe in God and religions, so, for them it would be better if religions did not exist. They are usually very intelligent people and have a good job, so for them there are no worries in life, therefore, they don’t see the need of God and religion, just because they don’t need God and religions, as they feel secure within themselves; this well to do group starts putting forwards all sort of stories in order to blame religion for some of the bad things religions have done in the past, but they don’t see that mankind have only to blame themselves, because no religion tells its believers to directly kill, or do anything else that may harm anyone.
But then, also attached to this well educated atheist group, there are a few people that are poor uneducated people and they don’t believe in God just to protest their bad luck, as they are not happy about what the world is giving them, so, they see the need to believe only in themselves; now, because of this belief they may become the worst of mankind, because they don’t have any respect for humanity, and also they don’t have a God or religion or any other sort of inbuilt restrain within them. I could say more about this group but I think it is better that I stop here and see what you think about it all.
Having said all this, now I only would like to add what I have learned from all this enquiries; and I want you to remember how I see religion now, as this may well be important from now on, if we are going to talk about religious issues, because I believe that religions are important to keep, it may not be an universal human belief, as we have seen in the example of the atheists; but God and religions are still needed today for those people that are unfortunate, as they feel within their heart that they need God to protect or help them. For this reason God and religions are needed, because; God and religion is hope for those who need hope most.
So, remember that;
Religion and God is hope for those who need hope most.
I said, very well said Mark, and so did Gino at the same time.
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Comments on Mark speech

My comment on Mark religious speech
Now, let me see if I got it right, so let me say something about what you have just said Mark; and then of course I am going to say how I see religious issues today:
Looking at what you have just said, we agree with you about this erratic people behaviour, so, when we take it into consideration, it seems to me that overall today people are not so sure about religions any more, we could say that they are not as sure as they were in the past, therefore as we can see today religions are not as powerful as they were in the past, because people just don’t believe just anything religious leaders tell them; therefore, they want to know and understand religions for themselves, so they start thinking and ask themselves what are religions for? Because of this trend there are many who doubts about the value of religious beliefs altogether, so, they are splitting up in smaller groups and everybody tries to be with their own mates so to speak.
Because of this religious movement there are some extremist groups like the atheists as Mark has pointed out that do not believe in God at all; this group would like to see that God and religions disappear from the face of the earth altogether, because of their non beliefs in God. I have to say that these atheists may even succeed one day in bringing religions down, if the rest of the world does not do anything to stop this movement bringing down religions. If that is the case, what the good citizens of the world should do to restore a balance that would prevent this event happening.
Well we need to do something, because there are reasons to believe that it would result in a great religious chaos, if we let the atheists have their ways; for these reasons I believe that the world cannot afford to suddenly stop believing in God and religions and follow the atheists views. For this reason I suppose we should think about something that could help everybody in this community continue with their religious beliefs, after all religions are still important enough even today, because as Mark said; Religion and God is hope for those who need hope most.
Perhaps we should look at the reasons why these atheists are what they are today; we can only assume that religions as they are thought today don’t make sense to most of them any more, because most times religions really don’t make sense even to us; but religious leaders still want people to believe what they believe or what they want you to believe even when it cannot be explained by common sense.
So, one has reason to believe that this religious leaders attitude is perhaps part of the reason why people are moving away from religions. Having said that, this question now arises; if we want this movement to stop happening to religions what can we do about it?
Well, what we can do is hard to say, but we have to look closely and then decide what could be done. Personally speaking for myself, I believe that we should review the ways that religions are taught today, we need to see what the future generations would like to see in religions and what they would like to change in order to still believe in religions. Perhaps the best way is to go over existing religious beliefs to see whether they could mean something else, or they have a double meaning and choose the meaning that would not drive people away from religions. What I have just said is one of the reasons that we would like to sort out in the future these religious issues, while we continue to write these religious writings.
Then I turned to Gino, and said: Now that we have heard what Mark had to say and you have also heard my views on it, what do you think of our speeches? And what have you found out for yourself? You can say what you want now it is your turn to speak.
Here I believe that this post is becoming too long, so we will write Gino answer in our next post called Gino speech. See you then.

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Religious Reconciliation Doc

Religious discussions

IS TO BE CONTINUED;

Next time with; Gino speech

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Other religious links from same author

https://sites.google.com/site/menfrancoreconciliation/

https://sites.google.com/site/prayersofreconciliation/

Wednesday, March 26, 2014

Religious discussions and prayers

WELCOME TO OUR RELIGIOUS RECONCILIATION DOC; YOU ARE INVITED TO BROWSE AND TO TAKE PART IF YOU WANT. IF YOU FIND SOMETHING PERSONALLY INTERESTING LET US KNOW. just a short comment will do if you do not have much time.
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Welcome to our blog, Religious Reconciliation Doc
and our post, Religious discussions and prayers
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In this world there are so many religions, perhaps it would be helpful if we would be able to come up with a religion that links all existing religions together.

Within our selves there is this need to pray God when everything else fails.

DISCUSSIONS AND PRAYERS
In order to achieve what we would like to achieve in these religious writings, I am praying God to help me. Almighty Father, hear my prayer and help me, amen.
In this article we will be writing some prayers that have been designed for the future new world order, where God is explained in a different way, in this future way God expands and becomes the life force of the entire universe and this prayer here under is one of the prayer that might apply to this new religious way.
My prayer to God for this article
My lord God, here with my personal writing concerns I come to you praying Father-Most-High master of the universe and life-giver to every living thing, I am praying thee for forgiveness of all my life sins and reconciliation to thy spiritual and eternal life force, I am praying in the hope that you would forgive me my sins and you would hear my prayer and help me; I am praying with all my heart my soul and my mind hoping that in your mercy you would guide and help me write this article of, Religious discussions and prayers according to your will and in such a way that these religious writings could be helpful one day to all humanity. Father, hear my prayer and help me amen.
Since we are talking about prayers here, I would like to add another prayer that I usually pray every day of my life, in order to feel that security within myself, since by praying I feel that I have done the right thing spiritually and God may help me to achieve what I have to achieve with these religious writings.
Prayer 2
Almighty Father I pray you with all my heart, my soul and my mind to guard and protect me from all dangers and the forces of evil and let me be a very wise man, so that I would be able to live the rest of my life according to your will, and write these religious writings as humanly as possible according to your will and in such a way that humanity may accept them and use them for the future benefit of mankind. Father, hear my prayer, amen.
Note, if you would like to see more written prayers go to our blog Man needs God and then click in the page link, My religious prayers
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Religious discussions

Dear readers I have to confess that I feel as if I am being driven by an inner force to write these religious writings of Prayers for Reconciliation; therefore, after thinking for a very long time and reflecting about this God sent task that seems to be within my mind all the time and never lets me go; I have come to the conclusion that perhaps I would never find peace within myself unless I fulfil my desire and continue to write about these religious beliefs; here I need to add that there are a few reasons why I have started this wanting to write something about religion, but still I have not been able to explain it fully, but I am sure that I will soon be able to do that, perhaps in this article or our next article. Anyhow, today I have decided to talk to my religious friends again about religions, in the hope that they now may have come to see my task in a more favourable way, and so they would be able to help me somehow.

So, I have called my friends to let them know that I would like to see them and talk to them. Now, while I have been waiting for them to arrive, I have also been thinking that it could be a good thing to write down the reasons why I have started to write these religious writings, so that while we would be discussing these religious issues, we would be able to understand the situation better. Therefore, I have realized that one of the reasons why I have started to write and need to write these religious writings was/is, that perhaps I see God somehow different from everybody else, and I also see or understand the Bible a bit different from everybody else; therefore, I need to explain to my friends what I think God might be like, in the hope that by explaining that, my friends will understand me better and so be able to help me with their input or their approval or disapproval.
Here I stop to think why I am seeing these religious things different, and surprise myself that I am denying some of the main reasons why I wanted to write these new religious views, here I find that one of the trigger of wanting to write these religious views or beliefs in a new way were one the atheists and another one was the shock of the 9-11 terrorist attack on American soil. I know these two groups are completely different in their religious beliefs, because the atheists deny the existence of God, but the Muslim terrorist believe in their God to the point of carrying these terrorist acts and killing themselves in the name of their God Allah, it is very strange that these two groups who have nothing in common, could be neutralized by using religion in a slightly different way, anyhow this is how I see this problem could be solved.
There are other religious reasons
Of course there are other personal religious reasons, I suppose you may be asking yourself why this has happened to me, so, let me first inform you dear readers the reason why I started to write these religious writings; well, it has been for my own personal reasons that I have started to write these religious writings, as I have been writing them as my personal prayer to our spiritual Father God Most High, therefore, these writings are being written as my personal prayers to God Most High, which I pray from the bottom of my heart, my soul and my mind, I pray every day of my life, while I am happy and while I am sad and distressed. Therefore within these writings here will be lots of prayers: In some of these prayers I’ll be praying God for forgiveness in order to become purified, and therefore become worthy to become God’s servant and therefore to write God’s things; and then again in another prayer I’ll be invoking help from God so that I would be able to write my religious writings the proper way, and in some prayers I will be asking God to protect me from the forces of evil; because the force of evil may try to take me away from God’s spiritual life force, therefore it is important for me to beware the forces of evil and pray God to help me. Here I believe that I have to explain again that my beliefs are based on a new way of understanding God, or God spiritual life force of the universe so to speak. Therefore there are many new ways of seeing things and praying prayers, and hereunder is another one of my prayers;
Another one of my prayers
My lord God, with my personal concerns I come to you praying, Father Most High master of the universe and life-giver of every living thing, I am praying thee to send me an angel from the realm of glory, who would suggest me how You helped to create life on earth and everything else, so that I could be inspired and be able to continue to write my religious writings the proper way. Father, hear my prayer.
This is another thought that came into my mind while I was waiting for my friends to come at the meeting, we need to define better, why we need religions and what could be God of the future like? Anyhow, I have to stop writing now, because I can hear somebody at the door, I can hear the voices of my friends, so they are here now.

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Religious Reconciliation Doc

Religious discussions and prayers

IS TO BE CONTINUED;

Next time with; more friendly discussions

-----------------------------------

Other religious links from same author

https://sites.google.com/site/menfrancoreconciliation/

https://sites.google.com/site/prayersofreconciliation/

Thursday, March 6, 2014

Our discussions continues

WELCOME TO OUR RELIGIOUS RECONCILIATION DOC; YOU ARE INVITED TO BROWSE AND TO TAKE PART IF YOU WANT. IF YOU FIND SOMETHING PERSONALLY INTERESTING LET US KNOW. just a short comment will do if you do not have much time.
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Welcome to our blog, Religious Reconciliation Doc
and this post, Our discussions continues
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Moses goes on Mount Sinai and meets God in the form of a burning bush. He is able to talk to God and in the end God's gives Moses The Ten Commandments. This is how all the Bible started.

This is how some artists see revelation, Our Lord Jesus Christ on a white horse leading his armies of angels to do whatever needs to be done.

Our discussions continues
Dear readers, we know that it has been a while since we wrote our last post about the end of time and John’s speech, but we would like to continue and say what we had to say:
So, let us go back to talk about the Bible and the reasons why we would like to study it in the hope of finding new meanings in it; so, let me say first a few more things about what I believe the Bible is: I believe that the Bible is two books in one, or perhaps several books all expressed in one single book, so, the Bible may have several meanings also and not just one meaning, therefore one has to be careful to attach just one meaning to the Bible. I know that the Bible has been used mostly as a religious book for a very long time; but look it is also a law book and history book, it is stated clearly in the Bible that it is a law book, they say that it is all God’s laws, as it is shown in the ten Commandments that Moses gave his people for a start.
Now, let us use our common sense and try to see what makes sense and what does not make sense. So, let us just assume that there is this real God, who talked to Moses and that this God has laid down the laws as written in the Bible: but then; did this God talk to Moses every single time? Or sometimes Moses wrote his laws as the need of the times dictated, so that he could control his people as best as he could?
Of course what I have said (written above) is just an example, but with this Moses’ example I want to point out that this could be the case for just any other laws and religious writing in the Bible; so, one has to assume that not everything written in the Bible is God words or inspired by God, because it is subject to manipulation from the writer himself and from future writers.
Having said that we could now assume that that part of Revelation in the Bible that we have been talking about with John in our last post; it could have been written purposely like that because, it needed to be written like that at that particular tough religious time.
Therefore, I do not believe in Revelation and tribulation as written in the Bible, or I should say as most of the people want to understand it, because practical reasoning in my mind says that it is not going to happen that way at all, because it is an almost impossible thing to happen just the way that it has been described.
Therefore I feel that, if the end of time is going to happen as it is written in the Bible and I am wrong in assuming that it is not going to happen and could not happen; then I have reasons to believe that I am being used from God, or God’s life force of the universe, so, I am being used as the forerunner announcing that the first seal in Revelation is about to be opened, and therefore, Revelation is truly going to happen. Well it is not going to happen just the way it has been written in the Bible, but it is going to happen and a new system is about to begin, that is the reason why I feel that I am being called to write all this the best way I could.
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The end of time personal views

This is the end of time personal views
After having said what we have said above, it has come to my mind that not all people that read religious pages may know what is meant by Revelation in the Bible, so, let me explain just this; Revelation is the last book in the Bible, and it predict how the world will end, since according to the writer God wants the world to end on his terms. Whether it is only a scary description to make people stronger in their beliefs, or it is something that is going really to happen nobody knows, so the whole thing is open for discussions and everybody can believe whatever they want, so let us discuss it if you will; and this is what I would like to say.
As we have said above, if what is written in revelation about the end of time is really going to happen, then because I am writing these religious writings, I am being used from God as the forerunner announcing that the first seal is about to be opened, just because I feel that I have to write these religious writing of Prayer for reconciliation. But at the same time I do not see that it is possible for me to be said forerunner.
Do you see what I mean? Whether it happens just as it is written in the Bible or not, it does not really matter, but I believe that some changes are going to happen anyhow.
These changes will bring a new system somehow, because I and somebody else who might be saying the same things as I am, about today religious system and saying that Revelation is not going to happen, Revelation will cease to exist, in one way or the other, therefore then, Revelation could be said that it has taken place, since a new religious system would be installed.
So, I am not particularly concerned about those threats in Revelation, because in one way or the other we will fulfil God’s will.
For the time being we may accept this explanation above, of course we are going to talk again and again about this subject later on in these religious writings.
To anyone that wants to see more of these religious writings can go to this web address:
http://sites.google.com/site/prayersofreconciliation/
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More discussions about the end of time

More outside discussions about Revelation

My dear readers, here and now I would like to say how I see these religious things my own way, or perhaps I should say how I see these religious discussions about Revelations today. You see, since that last religious meeting with our religious friends that I have written above, I have also had several discussions with other outside people about Revelation at the end of the Bible and from these discussions I have come to the conclusion that Revelation has different meanings to different people, I have found that there are people that believe that Revelation is indeed how the world would end soon or later; but there are also some people that say that revelation at the end of the Bible is not going to happen at all, because it was/is only a descriptive way that John the writer of Revelation used, so that they could control the religious people of those days by giving them courage since God would soon help them one way or another and their enemies would perish.

There is also another reason as some learned people suggest that Revelation is not what religious people want us to believe even today, which is that the world will end soon, because there will soon be a war so great that the whole world will be destroyed.

But there are some who believe that revelation has already happened, what these believers are saying is that, what the writer John was saying was that Armageddon was really the end of the Roman empire ruling over the world, because when John wrote Revelation the Romans were the main enemies of the follower of Jesus, so they may well be right to assume that a new system has already happened.

Since there is this great difference of opinion on this subject of Revelation, we would like to know your personal views on this religious subject, so, we are inviting you our readers to write a comment, so that a better opinion can be formed.

Looking back at what has been said in these discussions above; it seems to me that there may be a need to discuss the Bible interpretations of Revelation, because some people seem to disagrees with the present interpretation, which the religious leaders of today want us to believe, in order to scare us again so that we would follow them.

Anyhow in our next page we will be talking about this and also about prayers.

May God help us to understand these religious things?

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Religious Reconciliation Doc

Our discussions continues

IS TO BE CONTINUED;

Next time with; more dsicussions and prayers

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Other religious links from same author

https://sites.google.com/site/menfrancoreconciliation/

https://sites.google.com/site/prayersofreconciliation/

Wednesday, December 18, 2013

John's Revelation speech

This is how some people believe will happen at the end of times; Our Lord Jesus Christ will be coming with his army of saints
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John's Revelation speech

This is what John had to say:
Dear friends you know already why I am here.
As you all know I have been following up a few religions for a while, just to find out whether to be religious and follow a religion is the right thing to do for myself and for any of us, and if it is, what is the best way to go about following a religion? Which one of these existing religions could be the right religion for me? You see I have asked myself many times these questions.
As you all know in this part of the world most religions are Christian in origin and they have sprung from the Bible in one way or another, so, I believe that following what is written in the Bible is the way to go, as most people seem to be happy to do that.
Therefore, after having studied a few religions I came to the conclusion that they are more or less the same; so, I dare say that perhaps the best thing for anybody is to stay with the religion your parents have thought you, but really it is up to you what you want to do.
Now, let me come to today’s’ religious task; Mark and Gino here have come to me and told me about what you (Frank) want to do as a religious believer, So I became concerned, and for this reason here I am about to tell you my concerns, so I am here to talk about these concerns of mine, in order to help you to make the right decision once you have heard what I have to say.
Recently in a religious group we had a discussion on Revelation, a few members were not happy about these great tribulations and other things expressed in Revelation, so they were looking for another way out that would be less demanding on humanity.
To cut a long story short one of the members who was there pointed out that we could do nothing about it, as the Bible itself says that it can’t be changed; so this bloke took the Bible and read the very end of Revelation which says this; and I quote from the Bible as he did.
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The end of the Bible

Here John took his Bible and read.

REVELATION

EPILOGUE

22-16- I Jesus, have sent my angel to make these revelations to you for the sake of the churches. I am of David’s line, the root of David and the bright star of the morning.

17- The Spirit and the Bride say, ‘Come’. Let everyone who listens answer, ‘Come’. Then let all who are thirsty come: all who want it may have the water of life, and have it free.

18- This is my solemn warning to all who hear the prophecies in this book: if anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him every plague mentioned in the book;

19- if anyone cuts anything out of the prophecies in this book, God will cut off his share of the tree of life and of the holy city, which are described in the book.

20- The one who guaranties these revelations repeats his promise: I shall indeed be with you soon. Amen; come, Lord Jesus.

21- May the grace of the Lord Jesus be with you all. Amen.

(End of quote from Bible)

This is how, The Jerusalem Bible, ends.

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Now, let me go back to the meeting with Mark, Gino and John:
When John closed the Bible and said:
Now you can see for yourself why I was much concerned and wanted to let you know this, so that you know how I see these religious things.
Therefore, know that I have said what I wanted to say I feel better already, because the decision is yours if you want to go ahead and do what you want to do, or hear and heed the warning in the Bible and stop just like everybody else has stopped for about 2000 years. What do you say now?
I know, ‘I said to John’, your warning from the Bible sounds threatening indeed, so, I will take it into consideration and thanks for the advice you gave us.
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Discussing Revelation and John's reading

It looks like now that before I do anything we will have to learn a lot more about this warning you gave us and I will not rush into anything: but anyhow let me talk it over with friends Mark and Gino here just to see what they think about it.
Then I turned to Gino and Mark and asked them: What do you think about John’s Bible warning? I would like to hear your opinion on this subject, if you have anything to say you can say it now.
Mark’s reply:
Well, what John has brought up sounds very serious to me, and I dare say that perhaps you Frank have to moderate most of your religious ideology, so that it does not change anything that is said in the Bible, in another way whatever you are going to say it should not contests the Bible scriptures; look Frank a lot of generations have gone past and they all have accepted the bible just the way it is, so I don’t know why you see it in a different way.
Therefore, I would like to suggest that we study first the Bible a bit longer before you do anything about it; what do you say to my request? Would you agree to study the Bible with us for a while yet before you make any decision?
We all said yes to Mark’s questions saying, we agree with you that we need to study more before we do anything.
Then I added, but I would like to know also what Gino personally thinks about John’s warning and everything else? So, Gino tell us what you think about this present discussion? I am sure that you have your own way of seeing these religious things.
Gino’s reply:
Well, I agree with Mark that we should really study the situation before we do anything; I want also to say that I was partly surprised about the way of John’s interpretation of the Bible, I think that there may be another meaning to this sinister warning. What makes me think this is the way which Jesus’ angel tells the writer what to write; and it is also the way it is said, I have always believed that Jesus was a very amicable person: but here his message through the angel sounds very harsh and he issues threatening warnings, he seems completely changed; So I say that there are several meanings in those writings, and I would say that we should investigate and proceed with caution.
Me to Gino- Gino! What do you mean by proceed with caution?
Gino to me- What else can you do? You can’t rush things in a situation like this. You may have to read the Bible once or twice more from the beginning until the very end; or at least all the new Testament to find the meaning of what has been said, and then and only then, you may be in a position to decide what to do.
Mark said- Frank, I believe Gino is right and we should not rush things, take your time man! There is plenty of time to do what you want to do.
Then if it is God’s will that you have to write these religious writings, God will make sure that you will find enough time and also the right way how to do it?
Now, since we have already spent a great deal of time on this religious task, I suggest that we adjourn the meeting for another time. So, let us enjoy ourselves the usual way before we have to depart our own way, okay?
Okay I said.

Anyhow we have already said enough in this post, so see you in our next post about the rest of our discussions. See you soon.
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Religious Reconciliation Doc

John's Revelation speech

IS TO BE CONTINUED;

Next time with; Our discussions on John's speech

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Other religious links from same author

https://sites.google.com/site/menfrancoreconciliation/

https://sites.google.com/site/prayersofreconciliation/